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21 December 2008 @ 03:11 pm
Personalities for all the Good Boys & Girls  
So. As I start sequel-writing for SHIVER in earnest, I've been doing a lot of thought about characters and what makes a book successful. See, the funny thing about sequels is that you inherit a lot of characters from the original book, and you end up with an epic cast of thousands. So my first instinct was to panic about balancing all these characters and keeping them distinct and giving them all face time and not letting them take over from my main characters and keeping things simple, stupid.

And then, I realized, with a flash of brilliant clarity no doubt inspired by the six cups of tea that I'd drunk that morning, that having a lot of characters, each with a distinct personality, isn't a problem. It's a goal.

How, you may ask, did I come to this conclusion?

Harry Potter.



In case you've been living under a rock that's nowhere near televisions, radios, bookstores, or teens, Harry Potter is wildly successful -- both the books and the movies.



Personally, I like to take successful things apart and look at how they got that way. And yes, there are whispers of luck and promo and overhype and whatever, but the point is, you don't get as wildly successful as Harry Potter without having Something.



And this is my (vastly over-simplifying) theory. What makes Harry Potter a thing of cult fan fiction and beaming followers is the same thing that works for Buffy: a full realized world that feels like you can keep digging forever and never get to the bottom of it, and characters that have distinct, predictable personalities, all the way down to the tertiary character level and whatever it is that comes after the tertiary level.


You can take almost any character from the Harry Potter books, drop them in a brand-new scenario, and easily imagine what their reaction would be. It doesn't matter what the situation is, you can predict the reaction, because the character isn't an x factor.


You put Snape, Dumbledore, Hermione, into any given situation, and we're going to expect snark, wisdom, and pragmatism from them, respectively. Are their characters over-simplified? Yeah, I guess so. Are they exaggerated for effect? Heck, yeah. It's like what they say about showing gestures on stage -- you make them bigger so that they can be seen from the back row. They're bigger-that-life personalities, caricatures of real people.





Mourning subtlety yet? Don't. Because here's what my caffeine-induced epiphany also considered. The rewards of such simplified characters is that the audience and the writer gets to work half as hard to get a good emotional response. It's why sitcoms work so well, right? Because sometimes a scene is funny without any set up at all, just because you know a certain character is about to react badly to a given situation.


Or sometimes a scene is painful for the same reason. The character groundwork's been laid and you know that when you say "mudblood" around Hermione, she's going to wince, while Ron would just roll his eyes and maybe let his voice crack.


The beauty to Harry Potter is that every character has this level of personality, down to the creepy janitor guy with the cat. It adds an incredible richness to the world. Even though any one of these characters could make an awesome main character, they never steal the show. They never bring their cool stories to overshadow the main plot. But you know they're there. It's kind of a dynamite thing: to have a story populated with only people with personalities.

Does this sound obvious to you? It sort of sounds obvious to me. So why is it that I seem to forget until the revisions stage how important it is to bestow deep, well-rounded personalities to everyone in my book?


Like a blockhead, I find myself leaving the development of my secondary and tertiary characters to chance in the first draft. They get personalities by the end, yeah, but their default setting until then is plot device.



With my latest WIP, LINGER, I'm taking a page out of reality show producers' playbooks. They don't know what the plot/ conflict will be yet - but they do know while casting that they can choose people with personalities designed for clashing and fireworks. Angst and drama.


I love me some angst and drama.


So instead of being afraid of my large cast of characters that I've inherited from SHIVER, I'm going to embrace it. Instead of being worried that all of my fun side characters with their fun backstories might eclipse the main plot, I'm going to see what I can do to show everyone's sordid past in glimpses. I am going to do my darnedest to make this a world full of personalities. In under 100,000 words. That's the goal, anyway.


So what do you guys think about personalities? What's your style? Subtle? Over the top? Many? Few? What do you wish you could do better?


and . . . because I have to, when I'm talking about HP:


 


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( 89 comments — Leave a comment )
Ria[info]kessie on December 21st, 2008 08:28 pm (UTC)
Oh, RPazz. If only he'd know what was to come...
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 21st, 2008 08:29 pm (UTC)
Hot Topix and mime make up!
lindajsingleton[info]lindajsingleton on December 21st, 2008 08:33 pm (UTC)
I've been into series forever so have lots of theories, too. A good topic for one of our chat nights (g).

One thing I heard somewhere which I often give to characters is a "secret" -- often a secret never revealed in the book but something you know about them that helps to keep them consistent & motivated. I try to give all sub-characters a goal of their own.

For series I often plan things for future books, like a character that will maybe even die in #6 because he's undercover and another one who hides his sexual-doubt by dating too much.

When I hear from fans who say they like specific characters, it means a lot to me, showing I succeeded in making my characters real. It's a goal anyway (g).
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 21st, 2008 08:34 pm (UTC)
That's a great idea -- with the secret! Yes, we must chat.
An Incident We'd Rather Not Discuss[info]anywherebeyond on December 21st, 2008 08:58 pm (UTC)
So basically, what you're telling people is, "write accurate fanfiction sequels of your own book to ensure consistency." :D
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 21st, 2008 08:59 pm (UTC)
Exactly. EXACTLY.
C[info]alessandriana on December 21st, 2008 09:22 pm (UTC)
And of course, by giving all your secondary characters vibrant personalities, you practically guarantee that there will be fanfiction about them. *g*


and, uh, speaking of that: your opinion of fanfic [specifically about your own work]? just for future reference...

Edited at 2008-12-21 09:22 pm (UTC)
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 21st, 2008 09:24 pm (UTC)
C'mon, fanfic is a complete compliment! :)

If Someone was thinking of ever going down that road for future reference. ;)
(no subject) - [info]alessandriana on December 21st, 2008 09:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]tessagratton on December 22nd, 2008 02:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 03:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]alessandriana on December 22nd, 2008 07:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 08:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]parenthesised on December 30th, 2008 03:22 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]m_stiefvater on December 30th, 2008 04:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Melissa[info]stardustandsand on December 21st, 2008 09:33 pm (UTC)
*giggles* Love the speech bubbles.

Also, you never know when those "plot point" characters might suddenly decide to turn around and become major players in a story. Case in point: Gollum from Lord of the Rings. When I first saw the movie (I hadn't read the books at that point), I thought he was a plot point. I even told one of my friends that there was no way Gollum was gonna show up in the next movie. So then I read the books and felt really stupid. I'm usually much better at predicting endings than that...but that's not the point.

More fleshed out secondary characters=more opportunities. And that's always helpful in a series.
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 21st, 2008 09:38 pm (UTC)
LOL. Yes. On all counts. And thanks.
templarwolf[info]templarwolf on December 21st, 2008 09:51 pm (UTC)
I love that last one.

This whole idea does make some good sense. One of the things we discussed at Odyssey was the number of character traits you need to have a solid personality, and the number we came up with was four. These can be aspects of their personality and/or physical description.

Harry: Orphan, Lighting bolt scar, brave, loyal

Ron: Red hair, loyal, arachnaphobic, good natured

Snape: Pale, snarky, holds a grudge, ambitious
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - [info]jryson on December 22nd, 2008 01:44 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 01:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jryson on December 22nd, 2008 01:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 01:02 am (UTC)
Yes, you are. Because this is what I tend to do now -- write a character and drop a bread crumb for myself of something that might be useful, and then build up every time they appear on stage until I know who they are. But really, I think it ought to be that I know who he is when I first reveal him, so that the unveiling of personality can be more strategic.
Sera Zane[info]serafina_zane on December 21st, 2008 10:34 pm (UTC)
(Oh man, that last one reminds me of a picture my friend sent me of a cardboard Edward Cullen cutout, for sale in the mall for only 29.99. How I cringed.)

That's a really good point though.
Especially because I was realizing today my characters have two personalities: crazy and not crazy. Not crazy one's the narrator, crazy one's usually the friends, sub-characters and love interest. I'm working on fixing this. Shiny Zombie Apocalypse novel, for example, also has a crazy narrator. *laughs crazily*
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 01:03 am (UTC)
lol. My crazy ones are usually the narrators. ;p
(no subject) - [info]serafina_zane on December 22nd, 2008 01:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jryson on December 22nd, 2008 02:03 am (UTC) (Expand)
jessicaburkhart[info]jessicaburkhart on December 21st, 2008 10:45 pm (UTC)
Awesome bubbles. And Rob. Mmmm. *sparkle explosion*
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 01:03 am (UTC)
heehee. thanks.
Karen Mahoney: clever[info]kaz_mahoney on December 21st, 2008 11:12 pm (UTC)
omg, I needed to read this right at this Very Moment. You are truly awesome. I will read all the comments here and over at FF&F, too. Cheers! :)

Also, that last picture just cracks me up. *sparkles* LMAO!

Sorry, I don't have anything more sensible to add. *g*
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 01:04 am (UTC)
Grin. That's enough. ;)
[info]simonhay_healer on December 21st, 2008 11:45 pm (UTC)
I agree. You have to form a relationship between characters and readers, and the best way is through personality. Love them or hate them, we like them, talk about them, and look forward to seeing them again. Its what we do, we're all voyeurs and gossipers.

Now I'm a newbie to this YA urban fantasy writing fiction stuff, but the character thing, Wilbur Smith is a master. His stories are rich with family history. His characters span generations. Colin Forbes also did it well with Tweed and his gang. His writing has been criticised, but he sells books. Another one I loved, when shaving took 1 minute, was Sven Hassel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sven_Hassel Brillaint!

Great post. You've reminded me how much I love reading.
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 01:05 am (UTC)
Whoo hoo! And yeah, we are all voyeurs, aren't we? Make it juicy!
patesden[info]patesden on December 21st, 2008 11:50 pm (UTC)
~*sparkles*~ the last one totally did me in.

I've wondered if the number of adult characters in HP made it easier for adult readers to connect with the story. I found myself identifying with the teachers more than the kids.

I totally agree with what you are saying--archetypes rule (and make it easier to remember who is who).

Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 01:05 am (UTC)
It was nice to see adult characters in HP that weren't there just to prove how alone the YAs were.
(no subject) - [info]jesterjoker on December 22nd, 2008 01:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 01:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
kellyrfineman[info]kellyrfineman on December 22nd, 2008 12:40 am (UTC)
Re the photos: Love that last one in particular. Heh.

Your caffeine-induced brilliance is sheer genius. You are 100% correct about the fully-realized world thing, and why I still love me my HP so very much. Everyone and everything is ROUND. Even the ghosts. (Not so much in the Twilight series, where the kids at school and Renee and Billy are really kind of cardboard-cutouty.
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 01:06 am (UTC)
Yes, exactly! They have all the trappings of personalities, but they lack that extra oomph to make you feel a tip of the iceberg is showing.
The Green Knight: Bravo[info]green_knight on December 22nd, 2008 12:59 am (UTC)
Your speech bubbles are made of win, but I think you're right - it's very easy to distinguish the characters, and while older readers might roll their eye, nobody is going to confuse them.

And the last - *sparkles* - just totally cracked me up.
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 01:11 am (UTC)
Hee hee! Why thanks. And yep, to all.
Seeker of Benevolent Chaos[info]jesterjoker on December 22nd, 2008 01:28 am (UTC)
You want to talk crazy simplified ideas? I don't know if anyone else's thought of either of these:

Potter is the Joseph Campbell-style story for this generation. Like Lucas before that, and Tolkien before that.

Four Houses. Four friends. You know how Potter "chose not to be a Slytherin"? What would Hermione have been... a Ravenclaw! And Ron a Hufflepuff? Hmm. And Gryffindor is acknowledged by the fact that they're all a part of it.

This was particularly interesting when the Neville / Luna / Ginny created a group.

Perhaps this thinking of the grander things is what's getting my characters to feel the same so often. Happily, I'm busily trying to change that, and to increase my cast members, and ideas, from "two characters that play off each other" into "at least some more than that."
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 01:34 am (UTC)
Good points!
Broken: Fountain[info]apocalypticbob on December 22nd, 2008 02:08 am (UTC)
Slightly off topic, but I haven't been able to give LAMENT its full review (though I still intend to) due to my life exploding, but I have to tell you I absolutely adored it. I have a 50 page rule when I pick up a new book by an author whose books I haven't read before...I'll give any book 50 pages to engage me. I started reading LAMENT, and was on page 75 before I knew it and I had forgotten it was written by someone I considered a friend! I was so caught up in Deidre and Luke that I didn't care who wrote it anymore.

Just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed it and how eagerly I am awaiting SHIVER.
Brenna Yovanoff[info]brennayovanoff on December 22nd, 2008 03:05 am (UTC)
Just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed it and how eagerly I am awaiting SHIVER.

Here's where I behave badly and lord my insider knowledge . . . but you are going to be so, SO happy. It's the stuff vicarious romance is made of!
(no subject) - [info]apocalypticbob on December 22nd, 2008 03:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 04:21 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]tessagratton on December 22nd, 2008 02:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 03:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 04:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
Elly[info]nagain on December 22nd, 2008 02:32 am (UTC)
Hahaha, that last one cracked me up! That's all class :)
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 04:18 am (UTC)
Why thanks.
Sarah Cross[info]sarahcross on December 22nd, 2008 02:45 am (UTC)
Kristin Stewart, indeed! LOL.

Great post. Word to everything here. :)
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 04:18 am (UTC)
Heh heh heh . . .
Jackie[info]fabulousfrock on December 22nd, 2008 03:35 am (UTC)
Good post for me right now, as the mermaid book has ahhh-so-many-characters and I am trying to make them all distinct and memorable and give them all a little place to fit in. Magic Under Glass had a smaller cast and all those people weren't AROUND so much. This was brilliant because it's the kind of post that just kind of clicks everything I already ALMOST know into place.
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 04:19 am (UTC)
Well, let's pinky swear to not Suck in our next books.
(no subject) - [info]fabulousfrock on December 23rd, 2008 04:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Robin Bridges: muddling through[info]robinbridges on December 22nd, 2008 04:03 am (UTC)
Maggie + caffeine = very funny

(and very educational!)
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 04:20 am (UTC)
LOL. And I am never far from my caffeine, so what does that say about me?

That I have to be very funny before my husband laughs at my jokes. He's now immune.
kusanar[info]kusanar on December 22nd, 2008 05:56 am (UTC)
Unfortunately, I have problems with creating characters. I have no problem what-so-ever creating a story, it's just putting the people in it. I know this is bad when wanting to actually sit down and write a novel!!! x_x I'm not a very dramatic person, so I have problems making my characters that way ^_^()

~::Becca::~
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 01:56 pm (UTC)
Do what I do -- steal shamelessly. I often steal people I meet and use them as bases for characters.
(no subject) - [info]kusanar on December 22nd, 2008 02:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 03:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
I AM SHERLOCKED[info]i_amsherlocked on December 22nd, 2008 06:25 am (UTC)
RE: *sparkles*
*dies laughing*


Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 01:56 pm (UTC)
*sparkling smile*
Stormbringer Cirrus: Eclectus - O HAY![info]atateatarin on December 22nd, 2008 06:57 am (UTC)
I love this post :D

I think it was definitely the vibrance of the characters that hooked me into Harry Potter. I find it's the same with most books -- the voice plays a part for me as well, and I while I can still like a book despite not coming away with a 'favourite character', I admit I do still feel a touch flat about it if so.

Unless of course I happened to like all of the characters XD

Something else I found worth noting about the series, especially for one that went on for so long, is the fact that new characters weren't just phased in; they were phased in, fleshed out, and explored, even if only marginally enough to establish their role in Rowling's world. In my opinion it kept the narrative fresh and stirred-up, and the characters I think were what kept it from going stale in the last few books particularly. Their reactions to the events they were facing helped with some of the suspension of disbelief when things were getting a bit hairy towards the end, and if they were less dimensional I don't think I would have got that much out of it.
I think it also has signs of great worldbuilding too -- the kind that doesn't smack you in the face with walls of texts, but introduces you to it in a way that keeps it forever developing over the course of the books, and hinting at a certain vastness beyond the story. Which I suppose in a way makes the world a character in and of itself.


Me, I live for characters, and watching them grow and develop. Part of what I aim for in my own narrative is to build the story around the characters, powered by their actions, reactions and interactions, rather than have the plot dictate them on their behalf. I've had a character or two in the past who I've wanted to do one thing, they want to do another, and I've found that if I let them do what comes naturally to them -- within reason -- the story tends to get carried in a better direction than before :D
I've been told I'm a little mad for 'negotiating with the fictional cast', but I swear I'll eat my shoe if I'm the only one who does it.


And, that last pic absolutely made my day :D
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 01:57 pm (UTC)
Why thanks. And yes, for me, if I don't connect with the characters, the game's over. I just don't have time to read non character driven fiction!
suzanne mcleod[info]suzannemcleod on December 22nd, 2008 08:46 am (UTC)
Great post, Maggie. You always make me want to tuck you in my drawer and take you out when I need some inspiration ;) [in a non-creepy sort of way, of course *g*]Thank you.


And *sparkles* LOL!
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 01:58 pm (UTC)
Well, that doesn't sound creepy at all! ;p

Thanks!
Heather[info]edgyauthor on December 22nd, 2008 01:35 pm (UTC)
I so needed to read a post like this right now, and not just because it's full of awesome funniness. One of my WIPs has been freaking me out because there's so many characters. Each one has a distinct personality, though, so I probably shouldn't worry so much. As long as you can point to a character and easily say, "That's the perky one...that's the sleepy one...that's the one that says 'dude' every five seconds...," then readers should be able to keep up and love (or love to hate) them. Hopefully...
Maggie Stiefvater[info]m_stiefvater on December 22nd, 2008 01:59 pm (UTC)
That's what I'm hopin', anyway . . .
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